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Quiop's avatar

I have three questions:

(1) Are there actually any (secular) deontologists? Or is deontology just something that a subset of professional philosophers continue to pretend to believe in because that was the team they picked when taking Ethics 101, it would be embarrassing to change their mind in public, and anyway they need to continue to pretend to believe in deontology in order to keep their jobs as bioethicists? (This thought brought to you courtesy of the "Treating Persons as Means" page on SEP, which gives the strong impression that the author can't find a way to make the concept intelligible but doesn't want to admit it.)

(2) >Insofar as one can distinguish narrowly “act-directed” from broader “state-directed” motivations, the latter have greater normative authority.

("More of a comment than a question...") This is the entire point of your disagreement with deontologists, so simply stating it like this appears to be begging the question. (This criticism applies more to this post than to your draft, which considers act-directed motivations at somewhat greater length, even if deontologists may still feel the draft doesn't provide adequate support for this claim.)

(More substantially, and with an actual question...) Nye, Plunkett & Ku seem to be arguing that deontology can be grounded in fittingness considerations — the words "fitting" and "fittingness" appear on practically every page of their paper. By contrast, you seem to use the language of fittingness here only very reluctantly: you don't use it at all in these posts, and in your draft you use it only when replying to them directly and quickly move on from talking about "what is fitting" to talking about "what matters" or "what one ought to do." To what extent do you think your divergence from Nye, Plunkett & Ku should be characterized in terms of divergent views on what is fitting, vs. divergent views on the normative force of fittingness considerations?

(3) >All we can say is that we ought to feel (irreparably) torn, which leaves us entirely lacking in practical normative guidance.

"We ought to feel irreparably torn, and lacking in practical normative guidance" seems to me an entirely accurate description of the human condition, quite independently of our views on deontology. Is there any reason to believe it is *wrong*, as opposed to just an unappealing conclusion for a certain variety of moral philosopher?

Incidentally, I think "ipso fact" on p. 22 of your draft should be "ipso facto." (An ipso facto typo?)

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Nebu Pookins's avatar

(I posted an earlier version of this comment, but then deleted because I realized I misunderstood something about your argument)

> So the only way to lack the preference demanded by (4) is to fail to much care about those five additional killings. I take that to be plainly morally unacceptable. So everyone must accept (4).

Disclaimer: I'm a consequentialist.

I think if we take deontology seriously, then we should indeed reject (4). The key difference between deontology and consequentialism is that in consequentialism, we care about the consequences, whereas in deontology, we care about the rules.

Regarding "One Killing to Prevent Five" vs "Failed Prevention", sure the consequences differ, but maybe we (as deontologists) don't care about the consequences; we care about the rules, and the rules were equally broken in both cases, in which case a self-consistent deontologist position would be to say "One Killing to Prevent Five = Failed Prevention".

Of course, I'm not sure any actual human who self-labels as a deontologist would truthfully advocate such a position -- and maybe that's your point -- but I'm talking about deontology as a theoretical "ideal" rather than how humans might adopt it in practice.

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