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Amos Wollen's avatar

Matthew was taking me through this the other evening - clever argument! Going through it with him, I wanted to say something like this.

Distinguish between two senses of ‘preferability’: axiological preferability, let’s say, is the normative preferability of worlds (centred or uncentered). Deontic preferability, let’s say, is the normative preferability of a particular centre - an agent at a time (you might be that agent, or you might not be.) In your case, let that agent be the person whose act we’re evaluating, and let that time be prior to the evaluated action.

If we stipulate that we’re using deontic preferability throughout the argument, I want to reject (4): Five Killings = One Killing to Prevent Five, because we’re only evaluating the centre, and the evaluation is the same for either outcome.

If we stipulate that we’re using axiological preferability throughout, then I want to reject (2): ‘being wrong’ is a deontic property - but axiologically speaking, there might be cases in which W1 and W2 are equally preferable, or else W1 is preferable to W2.

To motivate the coherence of this idea: suppose someone’s hand is stuck in a properly functioning toaster turned up to six, and someone points in the direction of the toaster as asks, “is that good?” Contextually, the fact that their hand is burning (bad) is more salient than the fact that their hand toaster is functioning properly (good qua toaster), and so I would be tempted to answer ‘no’. But if I were genuinely confused about the referent of the ‘that’, I wouldn’t be able to answer; if they rolled their eyes and said, ‘but overall, is that bad?’, that wouldn’t help me. I’d be stuck until I knew which thing they were talking about.

In like fashion: I’m thinking that because preferability talk is, for contingent reasons, more axiologically coded, I feel pulled to read the argument in that light - but it might still be that there are two irreducibly distinct senses of ‘preferability’ (and ‘vast preferability’) at play, and that if we disambiguate, the argument can’t go through with either to the deontologist’s liking.

The positive motivation for the idea that ‘preferability’ is ambiguous between these two senses: (1) if it saves deontology, that’s to its credit; (2) by the look of the comments, it looks like a lot of people are wanting to say something like this - that on the one hand there’s the preferability of acts, and on the other hand, there’s the preferability of worlds. You point out that worlds (centred and uncentered) include both acts and outcomes (and, with centred worlds, acts by agents at times): but centres alone only include agents at times!

Apologies in advance- this is very jaggedy and probably super confused.

[no idea how to avoid incommensurability though; does any of this help with that?]

Quiop's avatar

I have three questions:

(1) Are there actually any (secular) deontologists? Or is deontology just something that a subset of professional philosophers continue to pretend to believe in because that was the team they picked when taking Ethics 101, it would be embarrassing to change their mind in public, and anyway they need to continue to pretend to believe in deontology in order to keep their jobs as bioethicists? (This thought brought to you courtesy of the "Treating Persons as Means" page on SEP, which gives the strong impression that the author can't find a way to make the concept intelligible but doesn't want to admit it.)

(2) >Insofar as one can distinguish narrowly “act-directed” from broader “state-directed” motivations, the latter have greater normative authority.

("More of a comment than a question...") This is the entire point of your disagreement with deontologists, so simply stating it like this appears to be begging the question. (This criticism applies more to this post than to your draft, which considers act-directed motivations at somewhat greater length, even if deontologists may still feel the draft doesn't provide adequate support for this claim.)

(More substantially, and with an actual question...) Nye, Plunkett & Ku seem to be arguing that deontology can be grounded in fittingness considerations — the words "fitting" and "fittingness" appear on practically every page of their paper. By contrast, you seem to use the language of fittingness here only very reluctantly: you don't use it at all in these posts, and in your draft you use it only when replying to them directly and quickly move on from talking about "what is fitting" to talking about "what matters" or "what one ought to do." To what extent do you think your divergence from Nye, Plunkett & Ku should be characterized in terms of divergent views on what is fitting, vs. divergent views on the normative force of fittingness considerations?

(3) >All we can say is that we ought to feel (irreparably) torn, which leaves us entirely lacking in practical normative guidance.

"We ought to feel irreparably torn, and lacking in practical normative guidance" seems to me an entirely accurate description of the human condition, quite independently of our views on deontology. Is there any reason to believe it is *wrong*, as opposed to just an unappealing conclusion for a certain variety of moral philosopher?

Incidentally, I think "ipso fact" on p. 22 of your draft should be "ipso facto." (An ipso facto typo?)

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