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Don Quixote's avatar

Our conversation inspired me to try to construct the strongest possible case for classical utilitarianism (or at least classical consequentialism). Here's my attempt:

Imagine a numerical scale extending from negative infinity to positive infinity. The numbers on this scale represent the net moral value of possible worlds, such that a world with a net value of 3 is five points better than a world with a net value of -2. This construction is valid because moral value has no natural units—we can adopt whatever measurement system proves most useful. Morally right actions are therefore those that bring about worlds with higher net values.

This framework essentially establishes classical consequentialism. Nothing else needs to be added to it. So the only thing that needs to be done is addressing the possible objections:

Objection 1: Such a scale is conceptually incoherent.

Response: I see no incoherence here. The concept of moral value is intuitive, and quantifying it through scales has long been standard practice in utilitarian theory.

Objection 2: Pain and suffering might outweigh pleasure and happiness in moral significance.

Response: The scale measures overall moral value, not merely pleasure-pain balances. It remains agnostic about what ultimately makes worlds morally valuable: whether hedonic states, preference satisfaction, or other factors entirely.

Objection 3: Positive value might be bounded while negative value is unbounded.

Response: Consider a world containing one universe with net positive value. We can add another positively valuable universe to this world, then another, and so on, continuing indefinitely. Each addition increases the world's total value, showing that positive value can grow without bound.

Objection 3.1: Adding more positive universes eventually stops contributing additional value.

Response: This seems implausible. Each added universe retains all the great-making properties of the original. These universes can be causally isolated to prevent any problematic interactions.

Objection 4: Positive moral value doesn't exist. The highest possible net value is zero.

Response: This, in my opinion, is the most challenging objection. There doesn't seem to be much more to say about it then that it seems like there is some positive moral value. I am not sure if I find this to be a completely satisfying response.

However, if this fourth objection can be adequately addressed, classical consequentialism would be established. I've attempted to make this case as simple and defensible as possible. If I'm correct, negative utilitarianism can only be maintained by denying the existence of positive moral value entirely. If I missed any potential objections feel free to let me know. I am also curious to see if you have a better response to objection 4, since I think that the entire negative utilitarian stance hinges on it.

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Ghatanathoah's avatar

I know you are just using the 50% 100% as an example, and not actually endorsing it, but I wanted to point out a serious problem with it. It implies that it is better to create someone who experiences (for example) 1 unit of pain and 2 units of pleasure, than it is to create someone who experiences 100 units of pain and 190 units of pleasure over their lifetimes. However, assuming that individuals value the two equally, most people would rather be the later than the former.

Still, I think the arguments for a hybrid standard are quite interesting and convincing, even if the axiology of your specific example could use some refinement!

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