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HeroicVenko's avatar

In addition to my last comment, here a some responses from a different post (https://www.reddit.com/r/negativeutilitarians/comments/1gl5m9g/dont_valorize_the_void/)

3. "The people with horrible lives that will be created until we achieve utopia are the kid in the basement."

4. "The problem with this argument is that it doesn't recognize the fact that societies and civilizations go through cycles of booms and bust, do even if we achieve "utopia" it's would be unwise to assume that we would not regress again."

Don Quixote's avatar

I liked your blog and your perspective so much that I decided to share it with my friends, who also love discussing philosophy (specifically population ethics). You are one of the most articulate and on-the-point bloggers I've seen. Discussions with you bring me great pleasure and serve as food for thought. Most responses from my group so far are very positive, but one of my friends disagreed. Here is what she wrote:

"This is what me, Benatar, and most other antinatalists really mean by “we shouldn’t have been born”: it’s not that we believe that being not alive is better than being alive and thus should desire suicide but we realize we couldn’t have existed and experienced “goodness” without inevitably some other people ending up having a miserable life. We thus realize that we and all of the pleasures and freedoms we experience have effectively existed at the expense of a few unlucky individuals being made miserable by unfortunately being given a miserable life via their birth. In order for them to have never experienced or continue to experience a miserable life, everyone on earth today or in the past had to have not been born. Most other antinatalists like me thus consider human procreation to be very immoral and no different in principle from the torture of a few to benefit of the many or preventing raped women from getting abortions so the fetus’s inside of them can turn into people who then experience massive amounts of pleasure over the course of their lives. We thus believe that happy, content future people have no right to exist because they can only exist if miserable people are also brought into existence alongside them. This is akin to acknowledging that while Auschwitz today is a valuable museum that provides lots of value to both visitors and the employees working there so it shouldn’t be demolished, it’s still a place that only existed because of the Holocaust and thus shouldn’t have existed so we ought to ensure that similar places like Auschwitz do not arise in the future,even if they were to provide value after they stopped being used as concentration camps."

She says that this argument is her strongest one that she'd like to present, but that she doesn't have a Substack account.

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