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Greg's avatar

I personally like the idea of more good. And I accept this assertion as true: “The key point: EA is only asking for a modest subset of your ‘subagents’—far from all of them—to be guided by impartial beneficence.” But I also know that there have been hyperbolic EA advocates—or people who claim to wear the EA hat—who do sound like they are advocating for a destructive approach to some current systems, who do say out loud that everyone's moral claim is equal, and that therefore inequity must be corrected. And so the response to those advocates, whose extremism some find objectionable, might be “that sounds like rigid, programmatic utilitarianism—not merely a theoretical framework—and I have problems with that.” Related to that is another troublesome, practical question: who decides who benefits? And at whose expense? I know these are not new questions for utilitarianism, but they become immediately front and center in this context. They are implicitly entangled, so maybe not all “schmotte-and-bailey.”

So, by all means, in the pursuit of “more good,” let’s have the reasonable conversations that promote the greatest good, starting with how we define that. For me, JS Mill got it right (though I think liberty is more than mere method; it is also a benefit in and of itself), and too many modern utilitarians seem to have drifted from his synthesis. And some EA proponents sound downright hostile to the concept of individual liberty. I find their lack of faith in liberty troubling. And so it goes.

Graham Lapworth's avatar

This is so loaded with moral presuppositions it’s hard to know where to start. Since when did morality and altruism have any demonstrated connection? People keep smuggling in moral assumptions as if they’re facts. Moral? Which moral? Whose moral? Good for whom, and for how long?

Morality is not a universal category. It’s not even a stable one. It’s a medieval invention with multiple competing versions — Christian, secular, utilitarian, Kantian, virtue‑ethical — none of which agree on what “good” is. So invoking “moral” or “altruistic” behaviour without specifying the system is meaningless.

Altruism isn’t moral by default. Morality doesn’t produce altruism, and altruism doesn’t require morality. There is no evidence of a necessary connection. People act altruistically for empathic, social, strategic, or emotional reasons — none of which require a moral framework.

If you want to make claims about “moral altruism,” you first have to answer:

Which moral?

Whose good?

Good for whom?

Good for how long?

And why should anyone obey that system’s commands?

Until those questions are answered, the argument collapses under its own presuppositions. I welcome pushback.

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