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Bentham's Bulldog's avatar

As I've mentioned before, I think there's an even simpler version of the puzzle that has the advantage of *actually being explainable in conversation*. I think when we discussed it though you mentioned thinking it had some small disadvantage (which might be right!) But the core idea is as follows.

Imagine three states of affairs:

1) Person A kills one person to stop B and C from killing one person each.

2) Person A kills one person indiscriminately. B and C do not kill.

3) B and C kill indiscriminately.

Clearly 1>2>3. So then the third party prefers the state of affairs with one killing to stop two killings to the one where 2 killings happen. But if one prefers a state of affairs where some agent acts in some way to one in which they don't, then it seems they prefer the action.

I think this argument is basically totally decisive. It shows that deontologists have to be quiet in the sense that you describe. But quiet deontology is hugely problematic. First of all, it's just wildly counterintuitive that God should be sitting in heaven hoping that people do the wrong thing.

Second, as you note, it seems that hoping is tied up with all sorts of other commitments--e.g. what you should vote for. So the deontologist shouldn't vote to stop the killing and organ harvesting or pushing people off bridges.

But things get even weirder! Presumably if you want X to happen, you shouldn't stop X. But deontologists would generally be pretty uncomfortable thinking that you shouldn't stop killings to save multiple lives. The person going around killing and harvesting organs should be stopped if deontology is true.

Similarly, should you try to persuade them out of it? If you should want a person to X, then you shouldn't try to stop them out of Xing. So then if your utilitarian friend asks if they should kill to save lives, the deontologist should say: "yes." They should even lie--for lying is worth saving multiple lives.

At this point, deontology begins to look weirdly egoistic. You want everyone else to breach the moral norms--you just don't want to get *your* hands dirty! You even should trick them into following it.

Should you then hope that you do the wrong thing in the future? Either answer is weird. If so, that is pretty insane. If not, then if you watch some person doing some wrong action in a screen and have dimension, whether you should hope they do the wrong thing will depend on whether they are you. Nuts!

Generally we think a big advantage of murder laws is that they deter crime. Deontologists must think that at least regarding murders that prevent multiple other lives saved, the fact that laws against those deter committing them is a bug not a feature. And this is so even though killings to save lives are morally wrong.

(Unrelated: this argument was one of the things that got me seriously thinking about ethics. I remember puzzling over it for a long time--and thinking it illustrated both how to do good ethics and what was wrong with deontology. It inspired a lot of other arguments against deontology for quite a while. I can't tell if this or you 2-D semantic argument against moral naturalism is my favorite argument from you).

MichaelKiwi's avatar

There are seriously real life professional philosopher who are like yes I am a quiet deontologist? That flabbergasts me. I was sure all would try and find a problem with your paradox, not just accept quiet deontology.

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