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Tim Aylsworth's avatar

Hi Richard! I always enjoy reading these posts, even though I think they are often unfair to deontology. In the case of this post, I thought I could point out an example of something that bugged me.

In the fourth paragraph, you represent deontologists as caring more about "moral abstractions" than saving lives. In response, you "[S]urely lives matter more than moral abstractions". There are many instances where I would be inclined to agree with you on that point. But there are other cases where I'm not so sure. Consider a case where a doctor is reasonably certain that one treatment option will save the patient's life, but the patient (who has decision-making capacity) refuses that treatment. Respect for the patient's autonomy requires the doctor to let the patient die. Many people tend to think that the doctor would act wrongly if she were to act against the patient's wishes and give her the treatment without consent. This is true even if that choice leads to the patient dying. Isn't this a case where a moral abstraction (respect for autonomy) gets more weight than human life?

I construed the principle in terms of respect for autonomy, and I presume that you would find other ways of justifying the doctor's decision to refrain from treating the patient. Perhaps you could point out the harms that would result from doctors treating patients paternalistically, the harms that would result from them ignoring consent, and so on. I'd be fine with that, but it would seem to me that concern about those potential harms is yet another moral abstraction. In a one-off scenario, the doctor is not considering all the possible consequences of doctors acting in such a way, she is simply considering what she should do in this situation. It seems to me that she would act wrongly if she were to treat the patient without consent, even if that means letting the patient die.

The second point I would make (and I apologize for having such a long comment), is that your argument against deontology seems to press a point that could equally be pushed against consequentialists. You ask what argument they have other than "I find the verdicts more appealing." Don't the arguments for consequentialism bottom out in a similar way? You say that lives matter more than moral abstractions. Why think that? Presumably, it's because you find that verdict more appealing. It often seems abhorrent to let people die for the sake of moral abstractions. Pointing to such unappealing verdicts is one way to justify consequentialist principles. So this seems like a place where someone could offer a "partners in crime" response to your objection. That's my first response to this argument. My second response is that many deontological theories (like Kant's) do not come about from appealing to intuitions about cases. They come from principles that are the result of arguments (as the mere means principle is grounded in arguments in Groundwork II). We might think those arguments fail, but I think it's fair to say that those principles come from arguments rather than intuitions about cases (the same could be said for Korsgaard who creates her own version of those arguments).

Anyway, I always enjoy reading these even when I disagree with certain points. One lesson I've learned from your blog is that there might well be deontologists who hold the cartoonish versions of the principles you are attacking, but I have realized that I am most certainly not one of them. In your most recent post, I realized that I am one of the "radical deontologists" who is strongly opposed to much of what goes on in the status quo, and I agree with your concerns about the deontologists who do not share our goals (e.g., effective altruism, factory farming of animals, etc.). Just wanted to share my objections! Perhaps we can chat about them in New Orleans!

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Rajat Sirkanungo's avatar

My only problem with this article is the footnote 2. You cite Ezra Klein who was recently talking about how the left needs to compromise more with the right-wing to win the elections. Currently, a democratic socialist (or likely a social democrat) who is much more left than people like Biden and Kamala Harris got elected and not by a thin margin.

Some voters probably didn't vote for Kamala because of her centrism. Kamala was also approaching to conservatives like Cheney. I see people like Ezra Klein and Matt Yglesias continuously talking about or at least implying that the left should compromise with the right-wing. But their strategy has not worked now. And I should mention this - the current MAGA right-wing is flatly fascism and historians and scholars like Jason Stanley, Robert Paxton agree with that. But even compromising with the fascists has not made the centrists win elections.

Given what I read so far from you, my only criticism or feedback so far is that - you are wonderful in utilitarianism, normative ethics, meta-ethics, but you aren't that good on empirical stuff like knowing the murderous history of liberal democracies and the horrible actions done by both American liberals politicians (democrats) and American conservative politicians (republicans). And that, you accept anti-communist propaganda spread by capitalists and fascists near totally or even fully.

For many brown people (people from the global south.. the people effective altruist care about so much right now), the United States has not even been an overall neutral country. It is considered a capitalist, selfish empire which overthrew any foreign government that cared for its citizens genuinely (like not letting a poor nation nationalize its oil so that USA can get good cheap oil deals).

Read the book - "The Jakarta Method" by award winning journalist Vincent Bevins.

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